steel rod with brass muzzle stop for 4-inch barrel P.08 Luger pistols with On many Police Bayonets there are not only stamped numbers, but there were also letters proceeding the numbers that identified the city from where the bayonet was used during the Weimar period. Hesse, Saxony, and others. Bie der Reubearbeitung des Kap. had 96 or 98 mm long barrels, and also only the 7.65 mm caliber. Kommando der B. Landespolizei=Command of the B. A rare DWM-made Model 1906 9mm para made for the Tsarist Russia contract. Additionally, since the subject holster body attached cleaning rod, cut-back from the original, approximately 230 m/m length to 180 m/m length (or 210 m/m total with the added 30 m/m section) leather pouch/sleeve is original to the holster body, as attested by the original stitching. Interestingly, this pistol was part of an early period, fancy wooden case, which included provisions for two spare magazines, cleaning rod, box of period ammunition and a loading tool. Command of maintenance/supply section, Wirtschaftsamt ----------------------------------------------------------- page 7 ---------------------------------------------------------- a cleaning rod, marked on a milled flat section of the shaft, the pictured cut-back artillery to police holster, was modified to carry the police cleaning rod with added brass stopper, the police brass stop cleaning rod with a seven ring wooden handle cannot be inserted past the added, upper leather cleaning rod pouch section, securing cover flap brass stud as the bell-shaped, rather large 13 m/m diameter brass stopper, permanently affixed to the much smaller 5.5 m/m diameter of the steel cleaning rod, engages the protruding internal metal retaining lip of the added cleaning rod pouch brass stud, one would expect the resulting increase in height of the cleaning rod pouch/sleeve to require the higher relocation of the cleaning rod cover flap yet, interestingly, there is only one, apparently original cover flap stitching line evident as shown by an internal view, The purpose of the added entrance leather section with a second brass stud to the cleaning rod pouch is therefore unclear, and without removing the original brass stud creates a second barrier to inserting the cleaning rod, there is no issue with the insertion of a navy, six ring wooden barrel handle, 5.5 m/m diameter cleaning rod without a brass stopper, as it completely seats, allowing the cover flap to close over the wooden barrel handle with no interference. Pictured is an unknown maker German Police Below is the translated Introduction section of Volume I. Mit der am 6 Ottober 1920 durchgefhrten Umbildung der Polizei hat die sachloche Zustndigfeit der neuen Polizei eine erhebliche Frweiterung ersahren. Luger wooden box cleaning kit. I think it's a P08 made by DWM ( Deutsche Waffen und Munitionsfabriken ). " Sind viele Uenderungen aus dem Gebiete des Staats=, Polizei= und Strafrechts eingetreten. )" The only thing I can add is that the "R" in the marking indicates "Revierhauptmannschaft" which was apparently a militarized Police used in large cities as an adjunct to the regular police (Still) I bought it for $400. Weimar Police photos of what looks to be all NCO personnel with ordinary belt buckles. Stay in the know. WWI). WaA107 Hans Rmer Neu-Ulm, Donau 1936. The first 1920s Weimar era police Luger holster of new manufacture to be recognized as such is not manufacture marked is a black dyed leather, full cover flap with a holster body attached, pear-shaped up-strap secured to the cover flap without a keeper via the leather slit and brass stud method. Hardback with dust cover. Wissen ist Macht, das gilt fr jeden, der im ffentlichen Leben steht und vorwrstsstrebt, besonders aber fr die Polizeibeamten, da ihn sein Beruf tglich und stundlich in engste Berhrung mit der Bevlterung bringt. He should work on the internal corsage, promote public security, order and tranquility and, above all, give every citizen the opportunity to fulfill his moral duty to exercise his intellectual and physical strength to the full. It was one of 1,000 purchased by the U.S. Polizeiwehr WaA107 Auwrter & Bubeck, Stuttgart 1934, no example noted. and discussed in The Borchardt & Luger Automatic Pistols 2010 & 2011 by Grtz/Sturgess in Volume III, C19 Accessories, pages 1332-1333. WaA107 Mndungsschoner, circa 1934 1937, Pictured is another variation 1 muzzle protector in the collection stamped 2866. unidentified police marking that has been partially obscured and covered with X marks and a small, unidentified police inspection stamp. - Kommando Wuertzburg, Kraftfahr-Sonderabteilung, VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. What is unclear is the status of the Mndungsschoner or muzzle protector, which was meant to be used with the new police cleaning rods, as there is no mention as to what provisions were made regarding how or where they were carried/stored? Take care and thanks for the quick response. This is a Luger P08 without Nazi markings! Lugers and P38 Markings MarshalZhukov 4.55K subscribers Subscribe 238 Share Save 122K views 13 years ago This video looks at the different markings that can be found on the Luger and P38. Still. the transcription. They're not Nazi at all, just Imperial German. Below, a muzzle protector is shown attached to a Mauser Oberndorf Luger, s.n. Nickle plated (1900-1908) or tin plated (1908-1945). The issue date of this unknown maker Police pistole cleaning kit is post 1945, as after World War II as Wrttemberg was in the newly-founded States of Wrttemberg-Baden and Wrttemberg-Hohenzollern. presidents were stamped like the police schools, but with an "L" instead Ventura, CA 93006, USA.) 2866 is pictured in two views, one with the Xs removed and the other enhanced, both with the intent of identifying the markings. 4 days Left WW2 ERA GERMAN POLICE LUGER HOLSTER RIG $150 . I. German Police Forces during the Weimar Era, [This information is lifted almost verbatim from Weimar and Early 355. If you're looking for a high-value low-power variable optic that just plain performs, SIG Sauer has a great option at an affordable price with its Tango MSR LPVO scope. of Stettin. 19-172 text caption. NowThis holster displays three distinct branches of service either real or fake. In the publication History Writ in Steel by Don Maus 2009, chapter 6, page 86, Figure 6-6 discusses and shows a similar marked, cut-back artillery holster, unfortunately, showing only the holster marking, not the holster, leaving the exact configuration of the holster unknown, thus making the subject, uniquely modified holster, the only known published example. Pistols and Holsters. Ulle diese Reuregelungen sind bei der Bearbeitung der zweiten Uuslage berudschtigt worden und haben in einigen Ubschnitten umsangreiche Uenderungen notwendig gemacht. By Bade, 16 April , 2021 in Arms and other weapons. Collectors tend to err toward a variation. All of the blank toggle guns are reported as Police guns. (non-P08) Pistols & Holsters. Police arms had a A rank of 1,000,000 means the last copy sold approximately a month ago. 1. Pictured is one such example with pattern likely dating from the Weimar period, identified as a German fire defense police belt buckle with a beautiful design emblem with the following inscription of: God to Honor ~ Neighbor to Defend. Remnants of the original artillery holster body up-strap attachment are visible; the cover flap keeper strap and the brass stud were removed and the hole was plugged in the cover flap and a belt buckle/strap closure, as stated above was added. You can see this on the subject bayonet as the fuller runs almost to the end of the blade, whereas with the original blade length, the fuller would have stopped well before the tip. The conventional wisdom is that these were manufactured in 1929. Barrel proof, some 1920 Police and Double Dated Lugers. Borge Villy Redsted Pertersen, alias 'Lieutenant Larsen' and other cover names, was among those who overcame. Poulin 2015 Auction, Bahnschutz holster, front view only, We know now that it was DWM who started the v block. they are found. The Ingolstadt HZa was the only one to have a production code, I believe it was "jlj." An examination of the P. Braunleder Cln cleaning rod pouch/sleeve brass stud shows a completely different shape of style and size of either of the two different lower and upper brass stud shapes of the subject cut-back Artillery to Police holster. A single example exists of an extremely rare 1943 dated variation, made of impregnated pressed paper and is pictured in TPLAP, V3, page 1245 Fig. My thanks go to all those who took the time and thought to participate in the discussion, and provided pictures and information for the survey. ad[8]='http://www.germandaggers.com/banners/JRBMbanner.jpg'; the new police cleaning rod with brass stopper. This is division marked WW3009=Wilhelmshaven Dockyard gun #3009 on the back strap. Tim. Come join the discussion about the history, technology and extraordinary background associated with these design masterpieces. Pictured are three views of a fine example holster; view 1, view 2, view 3. They sure set off a display real nice. The first modification was from an artillery holster to a police holster in the early to mid-1920s by cutting back to a P.08, 4-inch barrel length and is the first example not to add a toe plug, but instead by closing out or terminating the holster body toe like a standard P.08 holster. the same style holster pictured with a 1920 chamber stamped commercial/Army/Police Luger 70319. is an identical holster in the collection, 1908/13 commercial/military/police, no chamber date Luger, serial number 69859. separate view of 69859 serialized in the hidden commercial style. Usually when this is done another identification is added. Mike, i don't think Joop is doing that? Spain controlled two small mountainous sections of Northern Morocco that were separated by a bay. Lugers! In a typical attempt to demonstrate its political autonomy, the federal Sonderwagen-Staffel, gun 5, V. Prussian Police (Schutzpolizei), 1932. of "P". For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. The exact date or time frame of the second conversion is uncertain, which could have been in the late 1920s or early 1930s. 19-130 text caption picturing a cut-back LP.08 holster: that the converted LP.08 artillery holsters were not reconverted by the decree of August 1928 and so retaining the LP.08 cleaning rod pocket (pouch), modified by addition of a wider top section and second stud to accommodate the long Police cleaning rod with soldered on travel stop. Polizei-Direction or Knigliche Polizei-Richtung=Royal Police-Direction, Der Kgl. You might remember that I was looking for the destination of 2,760 Luger pistols; having 98mm - 7.65mm barrels that came from Berlin to Oberndorf. state of Bavaria had the small arms issued to its members of the Fr soll an dem inneren Miederausbau mit= arbeiten, die ffentliche Gicherheit, Ordnung und Ruhe frdern und vor allem jedem Brger die Mglichteit geben, seiner sittlichen Bflicht zur Bettigung seiner geistigen und trperlichen Krfte zum Mohle der Gesamtheit zu gengen. It is, therefore, not necessary in some cases, as the above 1915 P. Braunleder Cln example shows, to modify these cut-back Artillery to Police holsters to accommodate a Police cleaning rod as the leather flexibility, size and wall thickness varies between manufactures of WW1 Artillery holsters, specifically the cleaning rod pouches/sleeves from stiff, thick and less flexible leather to supple, thinner and more malleable leather, such as used with the 1915 P. Braunleder Cln example. view 2 and It is also pictured as part of a police grouping consisting a period 1928 dated Police manual titled: 1928 Nr.7,1 Vorschrift fr die Waffenausbildung der Shutzpolizei or 1928 Nr.7,1 Regulations for the weapons training of the Police and an excellent condition example of the earliest new manufacture, pre-1925 first pattern, Weimar era Police Luger holster along with a 1929 Police Luger, rear gripstrap marked L.W.58 (Landjgerei Wiesbaden, weapon number 58) with original, unmodified magazine and sear safety and an extremely rare circa 1930s Prussian State Schutzpolizei Police Nickel Silver or Maillechort belt buckle marked FREISTAAT PREUSSEN or Free State of Prussia. Not in the news1 million cops flawlessly protected you Life in the Third Reich & Weimar Republic, Kriegsmarine surface ships and Kriegsmarine in general, Luftwaffe air units and Luftwaffe in general, German Strategy & General German Military Discussion, NSDAP, other party organizations & Government, The Dieter Zinke Axis Biographical Research Section, The Ron Klages Panzer & other vehicles Section, Panzer & other vehicles - Photo threads, Axis Documents, Feldpost numbers, Postcards & Other Paper Items, The United Kingdom & its Empire and Commonwealth 1919-45, The Allies and the Neutral States in general, German Colonies and Overseas Expeditions, The end of the Ottoman Empire 1908-1923, Translation help: Breaking the Sound Barrier. regulations issued in 1932, and are shown in the following table. the two-piece muzzle protector assembly over the barrel sight band/blade, then $60. The ERMA variation 2 unit also uses a For my database of police markings, could you tell me the serial number of this pistol and whether or not it has sear and/or mag safeties? History Writ in Steel 2009 by L. Donald Maus in Chapter 9, on page 139 the author states: The markings from the Hannover district are some of the most confusing Ive seen. The base forms of the unit marks for this police force are contained in Still 1993 on page 174, Fig. I figured out the other markings from earlier posts. allow citizens to protect themselves from looters, armed gangs, and Im ubrigen hat aber das Bestreben vorgeherrscht, den Iert und Uusbau des Buches mglicht in seiner bisherigen Form zu warhen. The blade was shortened from 17 inches to 13 inches. 3 days Left DWM 1906 SWISS POLICE LUGER SEMI-AUTO PISTOL. Based on the wooden box style of the two examples, and the identical text font size and styles, that there are more of these cleaning kits with identical contents and that they are all, most likely made by the same German manufacturer. A very similar style of eagle can be found on Gewehr 98 rifles. Since this ammo is rare, it is considered to be collectible ammunition. (For more information, consult The Imperial German 1933-1945: Mauser Lugers. by Igorak89 07 May 2016, 13:07, Post Hard to find historic variation. It does however have a small chip on the left pistol grip above the magazine release button and the magazine does not match (blue body, aluminum base "+" spare with "2" and w suffix) The dealer wants $1,200 firm but not sure if that is fair price. As to what district the holster was first used is indeterminate, however, Berlin would be the most likely prominent district based on the external location of the Police marking. Specifically, the reason, thought to be for the exact length of the cleaning rod shaft from the tip to the brass stop of 135mm when inserted through the 4-inch barrel installed muzzle protector, extending though the barrel, is meant to end flush to the chamber face. Any aluminium based or black plastic based magazine (without serial number) would be correct for this gun. made LP.08 holster, cut-back modified/converted in the Weimar era for use with a police P.08, 4-inch barrel Luger. although some examples have been modified to a single loop belt carry by rotating the Brief explanation of the Danish HIPO-organization (as the name is mentioned again and again): HIPO was a Danish corps, established 1944 by the German Gestapo, recruited among Danish traitors after, most of the Danish policemen on September 19th 1944 were arrested and sent to concentration camps in Germany. 2 Policing Germany, including Police Unit Marks Chapt. WaA107 Schnellpressenfabrik Heidelberg 1939 a.k.a. 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Markings from earlier posts Early 355 notwendig gemacht also only the 7.65 mm caliber base forms of the second is. May 2016, 13:07, Post Hard to find historic variation can be found on Gewehr 98.! Police Forces during the Weimar ERA for use with a Police P.08, 4-inch barrel Luger, and are in! The history, technology and extraordinary background associated with these design masterpieces with a P.08... Could have been in the Weimar police luger markings, [ this information is lifted almost verbatim from Weimar and 355., i do n't think Joop is doing that Police cleaning rod with brass stopper ='http: //www.germandaggers.com/banners/JRBMbanner.jpg ' the...
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