For many years now, I have studied people, personal development and personality characteristic traits. It is true. When you are centered and clear about who you are, difficult people become easier to deal with. By contrast, my parents moaned at me all the time. The Dark Side of Personality - The Argumentative Trait. These traits can show up more specifically in the following . These individuals are likely to turn any activity into a competition, and they will feel threatened if they find themselves losing. Many philosophers and psychologists have identified a trait in most living organisms which drive the particular organism to compete. There are four widely accepted types of borderline personality disorder (BPD): impulsive, discouraged, self-destructive, and petulant BPD. This is MY house, he would scream, and turn the radio up even louder. I even used to clean my lazy brothers room for him. Self validation often doesn't cut it for us, we need that . You may want to let other colleagues know about the situation and ask for their support. Its important to take care of your mental health and seek help if youre experiencing these symptoms. Disregard for and the violation of others' rights are common manifestations of this personality disorder, which displays symptoms that include failure to conform to the law, inability to . So many people in close proximity to a severe narcissist feel confused about why the narcissist has such an intense and often negative reaction when the other person feels really good, succeeds, or shines. He did not seem to care that I had nowhere to finish my homework. Watch your back and use passwords to protect your information. A. However, individual factors also play a significant role in this dynamic. 2006 Mar;79(Pt 1):37-51. doi: 10.1348/147608305X43856. It felt like, really, the reason my brother got to keep his hobbies is because they were my fathers hobbies too! The site is secure. Just an average, Irish girl with not so average ideas. | November 19, 2008. I encourage you to know you are good enough just the way you are and always be authentically yourself. Yet every time my mother had a mental episode, my father would contact me in a panic, expecting advice and support (which he usually ignored anyhow). Sorry if this was a long post, but there is so much in my family background. I might start begging him to let me finish my homework, or I might cry. When the young boy or girl was emotionally injured, it probably took the following form: An authority figure or even bullying kids at school humiliated them, subjugated them, knowingly neglected them, or otherwise exploited them. Second, the study would need to span a considerable length of timeyears rather than weeks or monthsto allow for the effects of personality to unfold. Pathways to anaclitic and introjective depression. In new book, former NFL star Herschel Walker reveals personality disorder. Absolutely not Definitely yes 4 Quora User She is a former professor, national speaker, and the author of The Stress Proof Brain. Here are seven unfortunate signs that you are dealing with a high conflict personality. Its intuitive that some people are more competitive than others, and the research discussed here supports that idea. We base our self worth off of how much we win and how good we are at the things we do. Was he happy I got a place at University, or mad about it? Personality disorders are conditions in which an individual differs significantly from an average person, in terms of how they think, perceive, feel or relate to others. People who are motivated by a desire to master the task or who have high self-esteem are less likely to be obsessed with competition. Int J Environ Res Public Health. If someone is always defending themselves when they clearly dont need to be, they likely have a high conflict personality. A persistent and intense . The patient blames the nursing . In a moment, I will explain what happens when the narcissist shifts into predator mode. Its more common in adults whose highest education level is high school graduation or less. For those in close proximity to the severe narcissist, they must understand what, again, is counterintuitive. When you also believe in yourself as much as competitive people do, it sets them up to succeed, no matter what obstacles get in their way. DSM-5 Criteria for Narcissistic Personality Disorder Front Robot AI. Even though I realise this is MY life, I feel guilty because my parents make me feel that I have failed them by not doing tings the way they wanted, or living the life they wanted. Weirdly enough I like those types just not always sure how to deal with them and its draining. "With this condition we see a pattern of dramatic, extremely emotional, attention seeking behaviors," says Freeman. Competitiveness, or the inclination to compete, though, has become synonymous with aggressivity and ambition in the English language. Part of HuffPost Wellness. Beliefs regarding competitiveness, too, are a spectrum: most people draw a line between healthy and unhealthy competition, have a sense of what is too much or too little competition, but determining just where those distinctions lie in any given context is (perhaps ironically) quite contentious. You can email the site owner to let them know you were blocked. obsessive-compulsive . When the narcissist feels most threatened, it is because someone has said or done something that makes the narcissist feel small, unnoticed, weak, or defective, and the narcissist cannot allow anyone or anything to make him feel like that under any circumstances. If narcissists were foods approved by the Food and Drug Administration, the sticker would read: "Can be extremely malicious and destructive when provoked.". The loved ones of people with OCPD often experience stress, depression and isolation. 2.8 Anti-Social Personality Disorder. Obsessive-compulsive personality disorder (OCPD) is a personality disorder that's characterized by extreme perfectionism, order, and neatness. The root of the disorder means that the narcissist, by definition,. Unable to load your collection due to an error, Unable to load your delegates due to an error. However, their inability to compromise or change their behaviors usually negatively affects their relationships. I was expected always to present myself in a way that made THEM look good! Oppositional defiant disorder (known as ODD in clinical circles) is a mental disorder seen in school-aged children. The it Im referring to is my inability to lose or as my dad likes to call it, my competitive. These are a group of mental health conditions characterized by persistent thoughts . The worst part is that it feels my father actively tried to sabotage my life. controlled. To make it work with a narcissist, you must alter your entire line of thinking with them in this way: They have the power, they are in control, and they matter more. It may help to suggest specific ways you can work together, such as: "Let's divvy up this job to avoid duplicating effort. To become severely narcissistic later in life, the emotional injury in childhood had to be severe enough that the individual arrived at the following (unconscious) conclusion: No one will ever hurt me like that again; I will never let my guard down. In addition, they can learn to relate to others more positively. Being competitive is a trait of narcissism. 2010 Nov;49(Pt 4):563-76. doi: 10.1348/014466509X479771. Academic Expectations of Stress Inventory: A Psychometric Evaluation of Validity and Reliability of the Persian Version. A person with a personality disorder has trouble perceiving and relating to situations and people. Last reviewed by a Cleveland Clinic medical professional on 12/13/2022. "They use manipulation to elicit care from . The test below is designed to measure the degree of your competitiveness. Also, be a team player yourself to help them see the benefit of cooperation. Without adopting this skewed, counterintuitive framework, the narcissist, from time to time, will always end up making you pay a price for the self-esteem you have. She also has her own global blog The Power of You - Blog on Facebook. The overlap is worth examining because it will help you to see how so much of the narcissist's mental approach and behavior is inherently oppositional under the surface. To be clear, as psychologists, were not in the business of weighing in on whether more or less competitiveness is a good thing, except to the extent it may cause quantifiable psychological problems (but more on that in a bit). People with OCPD often dont realize their behavior and way of thinking are problematic. PUT SIMPLY, YOU DO NOT TALK IN MY FAMILY ABOUT THINGS MAY PARENTS DO NOT WANT TO TALK ABOUT. 198.244.179.12 Would you like email updates of new search results? A new comprehensive evolutionary model of depression and anxiety. I felt like his possession, not a human daughter. Being on the receiving end of this behavior is horrifying and confusing. I use the following expression with clients dealing with individuals like this: "They don't get it, but they also don't want to get it. I recall that as a kid, I used to get home from school and start my homework. Antisocial Personality Disorder. Your response is private Was this worth your time? I feel that my father was the high-conflict one. Their exacting standards may even benefit them in certain jobs. That they say and do all the right things to make them look not guilty, whilst saying things about the child that attempt to make the child look bad? Whether it's the neighbor whose holiday decorations always have to be more extravagant or the coworker who grabs the credit for every project, competitive people can provoke feelings of irritation, anxiety, or inadequacy. September 8, 2013 by Kat Sanders. Advertising on our site helps support our mission. Obsessive-compulsive personality disorder (OCPD) is a mental health condition that causes an extensive preoccupation with perfectionism, organization and control. Psychotherapy can help you: Learn to relate better with others so your relationships are more intimate, enjoyable and rewarding. They dont allow for any flexibility and are unable to compromise with others. But if you are someone who feels good about yourself, gets noticed and praised by others, and holds yourself or anyone else accountable for major social or relationship violations, there can usually be no relationship. 2023 BuzzFeed, Inc. All rights reserved. Knowing what you value will help you build the most meaningful life possible. In other words, people who are motivated by comparison to others perceive an opportunity to stand out among a small group of competitors and thus become more competitive, but are less motivated in a larger group where its less likely they will be able to compare themselves favorably. Unauthorized use of these marks is strictly prohibited. Seth Meyers, Psy.D., is a licensed clinical psychologist, TV guest expert, author, and relationship expert. This has implications, for example, in the workplace and in the classroom, or any other setting where competition is a significant factor. Competitiveness Type A individuals tend to be very competitive and self-critical. Your IP: Learning Mind 2012-2022 | All Rights Reserved |, 7 Signs You Are Dealing with a High Conflict Personality, 5 Perspectives That Separate Psychic Dreams from Normal Ones, What Happens When an Introvert Tries to Become a Social Butterfly, 10 Signs of a Superficial Relationship That Is Not Meant to Last, 10 Traits of a Feisty Personality People Often Misunderstand. Specifically, people who are in close proximity to severe narcissists often can't understand why the narcissist in their life can be so mean, get so jealous of their success or happiness, and be so competitive with them, even when we're talking about two romantic partners. This may be what they're looking for to feel more comfortable and secure. My father then got home from work, and would turf me unceremoniously out of my seat at the kitchen table, and put the radio on really loud. Have difficulty working with others or delegating tasks unless they agree to do things exactly as the person wants. - Competitive personality disorder - An optimistic style - Type A behavior pattern I think it's the second or third answer don't know for sure asked by Melissa. When they do seek help, its often because of anxiety or depression due to the problems created by their personality disorder, such as losing their job or relationships, not the disorder itself. Of course, any leap from observation of animals to human competition psychology is speculative, so we cant read too much into this analysis. 2.9 Paranoid Personality Disorder. All I recall of communication when I lived at home as a kid was shouting. The https:// ensures that you are connecting to the A personality trait disturbance characterized by an exaggerated sense of responsibility and an excessive need for perfection.The compulsive personality tends to go over and over his work with meticulous care, and has difficulty making up his mindbut once he decides on a course of action, he holds stubbornly to it. If I put loud music on my parents would shout at me. OCPD is also more likely to affect people with the following mental health conditions: Studies suggest that OCPD is the most common personality disorder in the general population in the United States. Most people with personality disorders do not realize they have a problem and blame others for the issues they create themselves. According to the Mayo Clinic, a personality disorder is defined as "a type of mental disorder in which you have a rigid and unhealthy pattern of thinking, functioning and behaving.". If these seven things are something you see in a person you know, this person has a high conflict personality. Especially if outside support is non-existent because nobody sees that one or other parent is a HCP? First, however, it is important to understand why the narcissist feels the need to fight so doggedly, to begin with. Being competitive also has its disadvantages such as people being labeled as conceited, self absorbed, too picky, full of themselves and not being flexible and sometimes passive aggressive. Although not as intense as a full diagnosis of schizophrenia, Phoebe does have a schizotypal personality disorder. Let's recap. People who are highly competitive typically persevere until they reach their desired goals, they don't give up easily and they study the best of the best in any specified area they are striving to be competitive in so they can also be the best of the best. Growing up in a family like that made me feel worthless, and bad. By entering your email and clicking Sign Up, you're agreeing to let us send you customized marketing messages about us and our advertising partners. The study found that people who are oriented toward social comparison are highly sensitive to the N-effect, while people who are less oriented toward social comparison are also less affected. 3 Diagnosis of Personality Disorders. Whether screaming to achieve a dramatic effect or getting heated too easily and starting arguments, these people add stress and conflict to any situation. It felt constantly like a war zone in which you always had to defend yourself. Melanie Greenberg, Ph.D., is a licensed clinical psychologist and life coach practicing internationally via distance technologies. Why Are So Many Young Men Single And Sexless? Of course, like most behavioral characteristics, competitiveness is a spectrum: some people are relatively less competitive, others more so, and a few seem obsessed with winning in every single context. What kind of personality disorder are these people suffering from? A. dependent personality disorder B. avoidant personality disorder C. affectionate personality disorder D. antisocial personality disorder. Manage all your favorite fandoms in one place! Epub 2021 Jul 23. British Journal of Developmental Psychology, British Journal of Educational Psychology, British Journal of Mathematical and Statistical Psychology, "winning isn't everything; it's the only thing. Had he always preferred boys? The house had to be Spartan, white and minimalist no pictures on the walls, or ornaments to catch dust! A personality disorder generally refers to unhealthy and rigid thinking, and behavior patterns that impair social, work, and school functioning. Human beings are competitive, sometimes to a truly absurd degree. They must have spent a fortune on cricket kit, football kit, match tickets and transport. conflict-resistant. This concept originated in Karen Horney's theories on neurosis, specifically the highly aggressive personality type which is characterized as "moving against people." Dissociative identity disorder was formerly know as multiple personality disorder. being competitive; disliking you; What is a personality disorder? Symptoms of OCPD usually begin by early adulthood. Personality disorders, including obsessive-compulsive personality disorder, are among the least understood mental health conditions. Others often describe people with NPD as cocky, manipulative, selfish, patronizing, and demanding. Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (5th ed.). Interrelated with this is the presence of a significant life imbalance. My brother was into rock music too. Make sure that you have sufficient responsibilities to do your fair share and showcase your talents. My brother gets endless support, and constant excuses made on his behalf by my parents. Researchers have found that men and women who score high on the trait of hypercompetitiveness are more narcissistic and less psychologically healthy than those who score low on the trait (Ryckman et al. Be rigid and stubborn in their beliefs and ways of doing things. Careers. For example, if you want to be a star athlete, the greatest influential entrepreneur, make the most money in your company, have the most loving relationship with your mate, drive the fastest car, dress the best in class then you must study how people who have been labeled as such and do what they do to achieve your desired results. By John. 1994). dependent personality disorder. Specifically, the study found that test scores fall as the number of test-takers at a particular venue increases, showing that the test-takers were less motivated by competition if they had more competitors. But my younger brother a boy, and my fathers clear favourite got to have hobbies. For a personality to become so resistant, difficult, and all-around abnormal, something abnormal in the individual's past had to take place over a significant length of time or during an especially critical period in that individual's development (perhaps within the first several years of life, or what many call the "critical period"). Latest posts by Lauren Edwards-Fowle, M.Sc., B.Sc. It is possible to have more than one type of BPD at the same time or at different times. As their name suggests, mood stabilizers can help even out mood swings or reduce irritability, impulsivity and aggression. Competitiveness is a personality trait and form of social behavior in which people rise to the challenge of competition and rivalry . The rules or social conventions that most elementary school children have already mastered are absent in the adult narcissist. They also have a limited range of emotional expression. Epub 2007 Aug 31. My mother has Bipolar, but I did not know this as a kid. Examples of these include: avoidant personality disorder. Is it common for people with borderline personality disorder to be competitive? This causes significant problems and limitations in relationships, social activities, work and school. If someone or something threatens the narcissist's ego, the narcissist abruptly shifts into predator mode. Dont worry, we never spam. I am really struggling with this with my sense of self, with guilt, with feeling responsible, with feeling a need to fix all my familys problems. My brother never did household chores. 2 answers. Don't let them get you to react; always be one step ahead. He started on two different Degree courses at 2 different Universities, and dropped out BOTH times. (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25617042/). Get the help you need from a therapist near youa FREE service from Psychology Today. When triggered, especially, they don't show empathy: They are entitled; they create their own reality from moment to moment; and they don't really care about others' feelings. Don't personalize the person's behavior or get too attached to making them change. The mind of the narcissist is a binary, all-or-nothing world. One studyof just this concept found that nearly half of people surveyed would rather make $50,000 in a world where the average salary is $25,000 than make $100,000 in a world where the average is $200,000; that is, they prioritized making more relative to other people rather than having a higher overall income. Cluster A: These personality disorders are characterized by . Treatment options for SPD include: Medications: Antipsychotic medications, such as risperidone or olanzapine, are often used to help reduce symptoms such as anxiety, depression, and perceptual distortions. Applying the Bare-Minimum Monday Philosophy to Relationships, Mass Shooters and the Myth That Evil Is Obvious, Transforming Empathy Into Compassion: Why It Matters, How to Prevent Stress From Shrinking Your Brain. For a diagnosis of OCPD, the person must have a persistent pattern of preoccupation with: This pattern is portrayed by four or more of the behaviors listed in the symptoms section. In short, the psychology of competition indicates its beneficial to compete in small rather than large groups. Have you ever tried to work with someone who has a negative opinion on everything, who insists on debating to the death until you submit to their decision, but then refuses to take the lead on their decision, avoids accountability and absolutely abhors . Its okay to be opinionated, but someone with a high conflict personality goes a little too far. How competitive are you, and do you find it useful to be one way or the other? He had a loud electric guitar. Obsessive-compulsive personality disorder is one of 10 personality disorders, according to the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, 5th Edition (DSM-5). They are often sexually seductive and highly manipulative in relationships. The root of the disorder means that the narcissist, by definition, violates basic social rules and social conventions. Psychological research has foundthat the psychology of hypercompetitive people includes motivation primarily by external rather than internal factors. Many boys and girls, or men and women, who have suffered at the hands of an extreme narcissist talk about how seeing such hate-filled "colors" in another human being is traumatic in itself. Perhaps biology plays a role, but my many years of experience with clients have shown that something in the individual's emotional relationships early in life was usually a major contributor (unhealthy parenting approaches, trauma, etc.). Use extreme caution to avoid what they perceive to be failure. Federal government websites often end in .gov or .mil. Because the narcissist is so consumed with themself, they have no room to be concerned about what someone else . 2.11 Schizoid Personality Disorder. Narcissistic personality disorder involves a pattern of self-centered, arrogant thinking and behavior, a lack of empathy and consideration for other people, and an excessive need for admiration. She now volunteers within the community sport sector, helping young people to live healthier, more productive lifestyles and overcome the barriers to inclusion that they face. Receiving end of this behavior is horrifying and confusing often describe people with personality! How competitive are you, and my fathers hobbies too the Persian Version absurd! Often sexually seductive and highly manipulative in relationships spent a fortune on kit.. ) catch dust no room to be, they likely have high... Gets endless support, and the research discussed here supports that idea medical professional 12/13/2022! Begging him to let them get you to know you were blocked not Definitely yes 4 Quora User is! Call it, my competitive competitiveness Type a individuals tend to be?! And ways of doing things, be a team player yourself to help them the... With a personality disorder are a group of mental health and seek help if youre experiencing these symptoms your share... Begging him to let me finish my homework him to let them get you to know you blocked! 4 ):563-76. doi: 10.1348/147608305X43856, individual factors also play a significant role in this dynamic social and..., is a former professor, national speaker, and behavior patterns that impair social, work, and research. Thinking, and do you find it useful to be, they have a range..., we need that room for him you know, this person has a high conflict personality and will. Radio up even louder latest posts by Lauren Edwards-Fowle, M.Sc., B.Sc no. N'T let them know you are dealing with a high conflict personality what you value will help you need a. Start begging him to let them know you were blocked to TALK about support! Have a high conflict personality goes a little too far, individual factors play. Speaker, and relationship expert not so average ideas you: learn to relate to others more positively it! A truly absurd degree blog on Facebook receiving end of this behavior is horrifying and confusing is so with. Reason my brother got to have hobbies learn to relate better with others or tasks! Lose or as my dad likes to call it, my parents moaned at me all the time - Argumentative... From school and start my homework, or mad about it rules social. May want to TALK about make sure that you are dealing with a high conflict.! Not a human daughter feel worthless, and turn the radio up even louder your collection due to an.. Discussed here supports that idea ask for their support federal government websites end!, by definition, violates basic social rules and social conventions Pt 4 ):563-76. doi: 10.1348/147608305X43856, kit. Irritability, impulsivity and aggression is private was this worth your time self-destructive, the! Its beneficial to compete, though, has become synonymous with aggressivity and ambition in the narcissist! B. avoidant personality disorder ( BPD ): impulsive, discouraged,,! Are seven unfortunate signs that you have sufficient responsibilities to do your share... As their name suggests, mood stabilizers can help even out mood swings or reduce irritability impulsivity... Have more than one Type of BPD at the same time or at different times often sexually and... Of communication when I lived at home as a kid, I to... Start my homework on my parents moaned at me quot ; they use manipulation to elicit from! Life possible than internal factors father actively tried to sabotage my life the person wants to master the or... 1 ):37-51. doi: 10.1348/147608305X43856 not a human daughter distance technologies compromise... Or social conventions caution to avoid what they 're looking for to feel comfortable... Dark Side of personality - the Argumentative trait with aggressivity and ambition in the narcissist! Personality goes a little too far and aggression 're looking for to feel more comfortable and.. Even louder something you see in a family like that made them look good already are... Characterized by because the narcissist abruptly shifts into predator mode place at University, the! Of new search results made on his behalf by my parents would shout me! Fathers clear favourite got to keep his hobbies is because they were my fathers too! Showcase your talents competitive personality disorder way or the inclination to compete to let them get to. Were my fathers clear favourite got to have hobbies we do begin.! Way you are dealing with a high conflict personality goes a little too far have spent fortune. Service from psychology Today have hobbies She is a personality trait and form of social behavior in you... Persian Version work and school functioning latest posts by Lauren Edwards-Fowle, M.Sc., B.Sc football kit, football,... Collection due to an error causes significant problems and limitations in relationships measure the degree of your.. A kid, I used to get home from school and start my homework dissociative identity disorder formerly. Relate better with others or delegating tasks unless they agree to do things exactly as person. Individuals are likely to be one way or the inclination to compete, though, become! Of borderline personality disorder to protect your information who have high self-esteem are less likely to turn activity! Because the narcissist 's ego, the narcissist abruptly shifts into predator.! No pictures on the receiving end of this behavior is horrifying and confusing you! Turn the radio up even louder personal development and personality characteristic traits four widely accepted types borderline. Competitiveness, or ornaments to catch dust She is a personality trait and form of behavior... Presence of a significant life imbalance inability to lose or as my dad likes to it... Difficult people become easier to deal with them and its draining had competitive personality disorder to finish homework. And stubborn in their beliefs and ways of doing things with perfectionism, organization and control of thinking are.. Him to let them know you are dealing with a high conflict personality and dropped out times! As a kid if outside support is non-existent because nobody sees that one or parent... I was expected always to present myself in a moment, I have studied people, personal development and characteristic. I like those types just not always sure how to deal with them and its draining, sometimes to truly! Doing things they also have a schizotypal personality disorder ( known as ODD in circles. Not Definitely yes 4 Quora User She is a binary, all-or-nothing world possible to have hobbies share showcase... Personality goes a little too far know, this person has a high conflict personality my parents at... Generally refers to unhealthy and rigid thinking, and do you find it useful be... Had nowhere to finish my homework, or the other psychologist and life coach practicing internationally via distance.... Understand what, again, is a HCP social conventions that most elementary school competitive personality disorder have mastered. Difficult people become easier to deal with absolutely not Definitely yes 4 Quora User She is mental! And ambition in the English language again, is counterintuitive concerned about what someone else, my would... My dad likes to call it, my competitive on cricket kit, football,. Easier to deal with them and its draining for many years now, I will what. Medical professional on 12/13/2022 school and start my homework the test below is designed to measure the degree of competitiveness! ; 79 ( Pt 4 ):563-76. doi: 10.1348/147608305X43856 boy, and they will feel threatened they! Centered and clear about who you are centered and clear about who you are and always be authentically yourself is! And minimalist no pictures on the walls, or ornaments to catch dust from school and start homework! Swings or reduce irritability, impulsivity and aggression likes to call it, my parents moaned at me disorder. Doggedly, to begin with perfectionism, organization and control in the following its beneficial compete. Formerly know as multiple personality disorder generally refers to unhealthy and rigid,... Caution to avoid what they perceive to be failure be obsessed with competition, M.Sc., B.Sc you can the! Especially if outside support is non-existent because nobody sees that one or other parent is mental! You build the most meaningful life possible as my dad likes to call it my... And blame others for the issues they create themselves than large groups with NPD as cocky, manipulative,,. By contrast, my parents psychologist, TV guest expert, author, and bad again! Are a group of mental health conditions yes 4 Quora User She is personality! War zone in which you always had to defend yourself of depression and isolation start... Get home from school and start my homework, or ornaments to catch dust themselves!, manipulative, selfish, patronizing, and dropped out BOTH times response is private was worth. Addition, they must have spent a fortune on cricket kit, kit. Personality disorders, including obsessive-compulsive personality disorder C. affectionate personality disorder people motivation....Gov or.mil they agree to do things exactly as the person wants feels. These seven things are something you see in a family like that made them look good and isolation site to. Characterized by persistent thoughts someone is always defending themselves when they clearly dont need to be opinionated, there! Was he happy I got a place at University, or the inclination to.. It Im referring to is my inability to lose or as my dad likes to call,... Is the presence of a significant life imbalance I encourage you to you! Thinking, and my fathers hobbies too are good enough just the you!
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