cindy paulson interview

Hudgens: It depended on the scene. CINDY: Sunday. Is there anything else that you have coming up? FLOTHE: So it had a longer barrel than What was the most difficult scene for you to shoot and why? Identifying and finding Hansen's weapon cache would prove essential to making the murder case against the " Butcher, Baker ." So he shows up Sunday night, then. Roberts father, an overbearing man who never did care to have a decent relationship with his son, expected young Robert to be busy at work in the familys bakery whenever he wasnt in school. Wife is shocked after husband of 15 years asks for permission to have an affair: 'I don't know what to do'. 2022 Anchorage Daily News. There were horns. The hair on the back of his neck stood up and his neck got red, and he was pissed," Rothschild said in a phone interview Thursday. He was the lead reporter on the Pulitzer Prize-winning "Lawless" project and is part of an ongoing collaboration between the ADN and ProPublica's Local Reporting Network. Vanessa Hudgens: I was a little bit shaken up that this guy who was well respected in the neighborhood and everyone knew as the family man could have done such atrocious and heinous crimes. In her case, becoming authentic on the job took 10-plus years. CINDY: On Fourth and Denali. OK, that wasnt even back there. CINDY: Uh huh. We all have the same needs. No problem. CINDY: A little moustache. She is known for her incredible homemade bars that she shares with riders while they enjoy the scenic views of nature along the trail. All throughout the mid seventies and even into the eighties Robert carried on with his hobby of abducting and murdering women, and theres no telling how much longer he wouldve lasted had he not decided to attack a 17 year old girl by the name of Cindy Paulson in June of 83. The woman, who was believed to in her late teens was found on April 25, 1984, near Horseshoe Lake. Instead he would immediately force her to board his small bush plane, and hed fly her out to a desolate area near Knik River where he would sexually assault her in a little shack which hed occupied there. Buck teeth. Thats what it takes for teams to bring their best selves to work every day.. Hudgens: Its interesting that actors put themselves in a place where they can feel so hurt and feel so much pain. Daigle, the corrections official, said that as far as she knows Hansen never saw the film. As you know, the only electronic I open is a crappy android. Hansen likely would have continued to kill and escape justice if one of his intended victims hadn't escaped. Though Cindy was able to describe her attacker and his home in great detail, it didnt make any difference. CINDY: It wasnt painted. They look at them in a very specific way. He was the lead reporter on the Pulitzer Prize-winning "Lawless" project and is part of an ongoing collaboration between the ADN and ProPublica's Local Reporting Network. FLOTHE: Did he point the gun at you at any time? FLOTHE: What was your phone number at that time? I wish we could say for sure that this was Roberts final victim, but its thought that there were probably more. And so I gave him my telephone number And he was going To be frank, honest, I was asking him for change for a cigarette machine. He spent many of the final years of his life working as a jailhouse barber. or debate this issue live on our message boards. This is Installment Two of the September 27, 1983, interview of Cindy Paulson by Sgt. Glenn Flothe. But he had brown socks on. CINDY: It was a really dark color. Yes, Cindy Paulson is a real person, and as shown in the movie, she was one of the many women who were abducted by Robert Hansen. Do you know your way around town well, or why did you happen to remember so well where it was at? (pause) Glenn Flothe and his wife, Cheryl, after her successful kidney transplant in 2007 When police were able to interview her, she explained her grizzly tale in detail. Purchase Butcher, Baker, Your email address will not be published. * I would like to talk about Roberts wife, Darla, and their two children for a minute. This is Installment Three of the September 27, 1983, interview of Cindy Paulson by Sgt. All rights reserved. At an APD station, She explains to detectives that she was abducted and repeatedly raped. Then on the night, and when this I guess, really began, uh, I met her up town after, well, on the Saturday, CINDY:(Inaudible) gave the gentleman my telephone number and asked him to call me. In order to keep their witness close, the state trooper and his wife befriended the young survivor, then Glenn reached out to the FBI. FLOTHE: Which photograph is that? This actually wasnt an uncommon thing for parents to do during this time period, plenty of us lefties in past generations were forced to conform, but apparently this deeply scarred this young man. Hansen died around 1:30 a.m. at Alaska Regional Hospital, said Sherrie Daigle, deputy director of administrative services for the Department of Corrections. Hansen would kidnap the women at gunpoint, tie them up, then fly to remote areas to kill them. CINDY: Nope. FLOTHE: And he contacts you at where? FLOTHE: Ah. There, he held her captive and proceeded to rape and torture her. Some people dont care to dive into it, but its the reason that I do this. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); Copyright 2023 Butcher Baker Primer WordPress theme by. FLOTHE: Where did he park the car? FLOTHE: Two hundred dollars is a lot of money Robert Hansen confessed to killing 17 women in the 1970s and early 80s and after the murder 30 years ago, led authorities to her body near a lake in the north of Anchorage. Darla had known that shed married a dedicated hunter, so when Robert had taken time away from the family, it was easy to explain away. Her ability to accurately describe every detail of her ordeal was crucial to establishing her credibility as a witness. FLOTHE: Did you get into his car, or did he just get out or what? His health failing, Hansen was moved to the Anchorage Correctional Complex on May 11. CINDY: I could say the time but it may not be the correct one. What did you learn from them? People either loved it or they hated it. Looking at picture number five, is there anything different about him as you saw him, compared to the picture, Robert Hansen Police Lineup Photo I overslept. I mean FLOTHE: How did you know that? You can listen to the podcast of this interview here. "You could hear him screaming at his lawyers," Rothschild said. Do you remember what hes driving on Friday? FLOTHE: What did the gun look like? Still, he couldve taken a life before he was busted, who knows? Every time it was in my face. Im sorry I dont remember the right dates and so forth. FLOTHE: How did you know this? CINDY: (interrupting) Well, I went over there cause at first I didnt recognize him. Here for the first time are the tape recordings that document that rendezvous. What was your reaction when you first read the script? Dont cause no problems and I wont hurt you. (Sound of pages turning. The many other women who fell into Hansen's grasp were flown into the alaskan wilderness, near the Knik River, where Hansen had a cabin. Hansens Den (Alaska State Troopers) How did you approach your portrayal of Cindy? When his truck became stuck in the mud, the woman tried to run. She gave me an extremely solid foundation and told me her earliest memories that she had until where she is to this day. Since his release from the Iowan prison, Robert had been arrested more than once for crimes such as shoplifting, but somewhere around 71 and 72 he was arrested for having sexually assaulted both a sex worker and a housewife by the names of Patricia Roberts and Susan Heppeard. The website seems to belong to the author of the book which inspired the aforementioned Hollywood movie, his name is Leland E. Hale. FLOTHE: What kind of boots? Glenn had been involved in the investigation of three murdered women; these victims had obviously been connected, they had all been discovered at least partially nude, theyd been shot with the same type of firearm, and buried in a shallow grave. I was just I was hysterical and shocked, didnt know what to do, he was chasing after me with a gun. Growing up Robert was scrawny, he had this terrible stutter, and a super bad case of acne; all of this made him the target of bullies everywhere. Cindy I notice that you are visibly upset and have tears and crying. And it had a long barrel (turning of pages) like Figure 4 or (pause) Figure 2. All Rights Reserved., https://lelandhale.com/butcherbaker/wordpress/2017/09/08/robert-hansen-graves-along-knik/, Killers found not guilty by reason of insanity. FLOTHE: There is a kind of lightish scar there on your That seemed to be a common enough thing to do, plenty of troubled Americans had moved to Alaska to start a new life, and this worked out splendidly for Robert! Okay. They told Hansen they had seized his map marked with 17 locations, spots that they believed indicated the locations of bodies. FLOTHE: Can you describe it a little bit more to me? Only 12 bodies of the 17 women Hansen confessed to killing have been found. The trooper instinctively knew that the girl had been telling the whole truth, that Robert was his killer, and more women were going to die unless he was quickly stopped. * I strive to be as concise as possible when it comes to facts as theres no telling what an article may be used for. (inaudible) FLOTHE: OK. Was it a blue color? FLOTHE: Was there anything else unusual about the house? This looks black but its actually blue. His alibi - two friends - also admitted they had been lying. Brown and Caldwell's former Chief Technical Officer Cindy Paulson understands that for Balance and Belonging to thrive, employees need to be who they truly are. Lets touch on this serials background for a minute, because thats important when looking at a killer. CINDY: Yes. FLOTHE: I have its kind of a picture book with different types of guns in it, OK. Would you take a look through that picture book and see if you see a gun that might be similar to the one that this man had? And hes short. Maybe they were different frames. How does it compare to what you envisioned when you first read the script? (inaudible). CINDY: Yeah. Were able to have honest and trusting conversations about how to make BC, and hopefully the industry, a place We must take small steps to make a positive change in the workplace and industry and, right now, its We work to create a more inclusive space because everyone deserves to live and embrace their truths. Mr Hoage said the woman was among cases of unidentified and missing people that were being reviewed by the center, with authorities receiving permission for the exhumation, the day before Hansen died. CINDY: Yes, its real Hell yeah, Im bothered by it. FLOTHE: What was he driving then, Sunday night? FLOTHE: Did he tell you what his name was? FLOTHE: At what time did he call you on Saturday? FRANK ROTHSCHILD (FR): Alright. (sound of paper being torn off a tablet) After being raped and tortured in the basement of Hansen's home, teen sex worker Cindy Paulson made a run for it at the airport while her captor was busy loading his plane. And then we hear about the same meet up from Cindy Paulsons perspective, documented in her trooper interview with Sgt. In the film inspired by true events, Hudgens character forms an unlikely partnership with Alaska State Trooper, Sgt. Thats why he did it. She Gets rescued By an patrol Officer. Brown shoes. There are 30+ professionals named "Cindy Paulson", who use LinkedIn to exchange information, ideas, and opportunities. But that's not the only discrepancy, another Hansen victim, DeLynn Frey, reportedly also was found near the same lake on the same day, but Mr Hoage said Frey was found near another lake in 1985. And I was supposed to meet him but I didnt show up cause I overslept. I said, no, we can go to my place. He said, no, he didnt want to. The stuffed heads of the animals which hed killed lined his walls, and damming items such as unique jewelry pieces which could easily be linked back to many of the missing women were found within the home as well. 17-year-old Cindy Paulson ran away from Hansen in 1983 as he was trying to load her into his plane and "take her out to his cabin," presumably a euphemism for the vacant Alaskan wilderness where he gunned down his victims. In the early morning of June 13th 1983, (months before the other bodies were found) Cindy Paulson appeared on the side of the road. Was it important for you to give the victims a voice in this film? If she saw blood, well, that would also have made sense as her husband was a hunter. FLOTHE: Youre positive. It must also be mentioned that she and the children were constantly insulted and belittled by Robert, and it wouldnt be surprising to learn that he was physically abusive; there may have been some trauma bonding there as well. It was very, very eerie and really tough, but John (Cusack) was great. And Ill give you one guess as to who fit the bill perfectly! There was also a collection of newspaper articles about the killer and his missing victims, and a map with little X marks all over it which indicated where hed dumped his victims. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. That was everywhere in the whole In the basement there was fish, there was wolf skin, there was stuffed animals everywhere. Together they entertained colleagues at their home. Be sure and look at all six. It was smooth like Figure 20s handle, but the gun was shaped like Figure 21. He had been transferred to the hospital on Wednesday. Hudgens: That was great. (laughs) Its my monster of sorts. As shown in 'The Frozen Ground,' Cindy Paulson was Hansen's only victim who got away while he was trying to load her into his aircraft. The Special Agent had known that this killer would be into collecting trophies from his victims, that he would have very little self worth, and that hed have a burning hatred for women you know, the usual type thing, but to pinpoint this killers stutter is truly astonishing! Required fields are marked *. Robert Christian Hansen (the Butcher Baker) and the Delphi Murde We all have the same needs. FLOTHE: Did he give you change? He was really sweet. FLOTHE: At this time, so I know what youre talking about, cause I have not been in the house, Cindy FLOTHE: So he takes you to the house. Robert chased after his intended victim, but it was no use. With a cut in the back. Kyle Hopkins is special projects editor of the Anchorage Daily News. CINDY: No. Cause I still got marks from the handcuffs on my hands. FLOTHE: Was there anybody with him on Friday? FLOTHE: You think if I showed you some pictures of some cars later on you might be able to pick it out? Hes amazing. Normally, people try avoiding that. Hansen owned a bakery in a downtown mini mall and lived across town with his wife and children, who knew nothing of his double life. He takes Paulson to a hospital and her clothes are kept for a rape Kit. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); Copyright 2023 Butcher Baker Primer WordPress theme by. I actually shot that before I filmed this (The Frozen Ground) interestingly enough. If youre very sensitive to that sort of thing (I know that much of my audience is ) then you may wish to skip this one. CINDY: Um hmm. It was just shocking and disturbing. CINDY: Uh huh. If hed just murdered those women, they couldnt have turned him in, and he wouldnt have been in trouble not committing violent crimes was never an option. A MAJOR PHILANTHROPIST. What are your thoughts on the reception to Spring Breakers? I understand youre in early talks for The Kitchen Sink which has been described as a monster genre mash-up. CINDY: Yeah, but then again one seat looks the same. Same with the two sexual assaults; I have an arrest date of December 1971, but as for the date of the crimes or whether he was arrested for both at the same time (which I assume to be the case) is unclear. She had been engaging in sex work. FLOTHE: Do you feel that he was going to hurt you? Workers and drug dealers and dancers came and went, many with few ties to the state and no one to notice if they went missing. Can you talk about your fun cameo in Machete Kills and what that experience was like? Stephen Hoage, operations administrator for the state medical examiner's office said: 'We know what happened to her. CINDY: It was a big revolver gun, like a police gun. The FBI had been spot on about everything. Police soon picked the killer up for questioning, but when it came down to it, a mild mannered baker with a rap sheet was still more believable in the early eighties than a half naked, handcuffed and barefooted teenaged sex worker. Being authentic creates the space for diversity of thought and means drawing on experiences that fall outside the box. Vanessa Hudgens turns in a surprisingly raw and emotionally powerful performance in Scott Walker's suspenseful thriller, The Frozen Ground, as 17-year-old street hooker Cindy Paulson, one of. FLOTHE: Make sure you look through the whole book before you decide. 37 Cindy Paulson Photos and Premium High Res Pictures - Getty Images CREATIVE Collections Project #ShowUs Creative Insights EDITORIAL VIDEO BBC Motion Gallery NBC News Archives MUSIC BLOG BROWSE PRICING ENTERPRISE VisualGPS INSIGHTS BOARDS CART SIGN IN Images Images Creative Editorial Video Creative Editorial FILTERS CREATIVE EDITORIAL VIDEO As of 5:30 Saturday afternoon theres a new article available. FLOTHE: You also described the outside of the house. Hansens House, Old Harbor Road (copyright Leland E. Hale). Did he give you a sense of what he wanted and then get out of the way and let you follow your instincts as an actor? But then, after that, I could not get over the fact of how amazing this character was and how I had to be a part of it. Eventually his buddys conscience got the better of him, and he confessed his crimes to the police; for his role, Robert was sentenced to three years incarceration. I didnt know, there was, uh I I I couldnt see her that night cause it was during the week and Im running my bakery and I start there at 1:00 in the morning and, uh, she give me a phone number there for her at one of the motels. I think hes such an incredible filmmaker. So in 1939 Robert was born in Estherville, Iowa to an immigrant father. 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The killer had been in declining health for the past year, the department said. We recently landed an exclusive interview with Hudgens who talked about her reaction when she first read the script, how meeting the real Cindy Paulson helped inform her portrayal of the character, why it was important to her that audiences see Paulson as a real human being and not a stereotype, what she learned from working with experienced actors like Cage and Cusack who inspired her performance, how Walkers enthusiasm and energy kept the atmosphere on set upbeat despite the dark subject matter, and what she discovered about herself in the process of making the film. "I can still see him when he got livid like that," he said. Hansen later became one of the first prisoners at the newly opened Spring Creek Correctional Center, where he had remained until this year. Hansen was officially charged with the abduction and rape of Cindy Paulson and the murders of Joanna Messina, Sherry Morrow, Paula Goulding, and the unidentified body known as "Eklutna Annie." On February 28, 1984, Robert Hansen was sentenced to 461 years plus life in prison with no parole. She described the kidnapper and his plane to authorities, but when police questioned him, he had an alibi and a gentle demeanor, so they let him go. In a police interview after Paulson's escape, she told him she got the feeling other people may live in the house. CINDY: Uh huh. Eventually Robert did admit to having raped dozens, but would only confess to the murder of 17; he even lead police to the shallow graves of twelve more corpses. https://lelandhale.com/butcherbaker/wordpress/2017/09/08/robert-hansen-graves-along-knik/. CINDY: Well, I didnt. Investigators believe that before killing his victims, Robert would often take them to his cabin in the wilderness in his private jet. In her case, becoming authentic on the job took 10-plus years. As broad as that seems, its kind of the plan. Process Intensification with BC:Ntensify, Technology and Innovation Leadership Team, Brown and Caldwell looks to the future of 75 years and counting, Black History Month and Engineers Week: Why I became an engineer. Sadly in a roundabout way Robert brought upon his own two children the same thing which had traumatized him, his kids were bullied mercilessly for their fathers evil acts. Cause at the time, I was very new to Alaska and I dont never go to anybodys house. CINDY: Yep. Hudgens: It was definitely the rape scene because we recreated that room to a T. I mean, everything that I was seeing, the emotions that I was feeling, were the exact same things that these young victims had gone through as well, and it was crazy living that, even though its make believe. Now her body has been exhumed from from the cemetery at Anchorage Memorial Park with the hope that DNA testing and facial reconstruction will lead to her being identified. FLOTHE: And contact Cindy at this phone number and this room number The Butcher Baker Minisode. FLOTHE: Like a station wagon? Hansen confessed to authorities that he had killed 17. It turned into a cat and mouse chase. And he said well he was gonna start getting his moneys worth. (Cindy Paulson), Cindy Paulson CINDY: I dont think so. Why not be the first to send us your thoughts, Thats not all he said, of course. CINDY: I talked to him and made an appointment to meet him and I didnt show up. STEPHEN Don't just stick to the Malbec! We just want her to be identified.'. Robert thoroughly enjoyed hunting humans; these ladies were savagely murdered with his favorite weapons: a Ruger Mini-14 and a hunting knife. I personally loved it. FLOTHE: Where were you going to meet him at Saturday? Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. Darla eventually obtained a teaching job in Russia, and as far as I can tell she remains there today: the kids made lives for themselves somewhere in the American Midwest. He pulled over and I recognized him immediately. CINDY: Thats it. BC is creating the space for more diverse thoughts and experiences and bringing better solutions to our clients as a result, she adds. After hed heard what Cindy had to say, Glenn knew a few things to be true. I said, fine, we can do it in the car. It was smooth. Vanessa Hudgens turns in a surprisingly raw and emotionally powerful performance in Scott Walkers suspenseful thriller, The Frozen Ground, as 17-year-old street hooker Cindy Paulson, one of the few victims that managed to escape Alaskas most notorious serial killer, Robert Hansen (John Cusack). The others were never located. He picked her up in town and told her he was driving her to his home in Muldoon, he said. He liked to take these women home with him, and once a victim had entered this killers lair she was pretty much doomed; he would take her down to the basement, often to a secret soundproof room where he already had chains rigged up. Now, from reading your report apparently you had a pretty good description of the house that you gave the police. CINDY: It was probably about a 72, cream-colored Datsun, with a kinda station wagon in the back, the kind that you used to It was about a 72 or 73. But when Cindy reached out to the police, they believed Hansen's story, which was again backed up by his powerful friends. When he was arrested for the sexual assaults, Robert had claimed to have been an innocent man, and she believed what hed told her; shed had her suspicions that her husband may have been a cheater who possibly enjoyed the company of an escort every once in a while, but a woman killer? FLOTHE: When did he tell you this? You know, like mine is. Did you know the street name? Cindy reveals that Hansen flashed some bills at her and that she was entranced by the thought of his money. Its very specific and unique, and its that type of film. Hansen asked to speak with his attorneys and went out into another room. CINDY: Yep. There was this aha moment that there are a lot of people like me within the company. Its another fun, more light-hearted character that the audiences have never seen me do before. How do you feel about the final film now that youve seen it? He invited me afterwards to go to dinner with him and a couple of his friends because he felt so bad about putting me through that. FLOTHE: What do you mean by a cut in the back? So he felt he should go and get the girl and take her over to his house. Its by far the craziest transformation Ive had yet. My dream is to purchasing what I need to get that YouTube/patreon off the ground. But then also, it was not personal enough that it would come home with me and affect my sleeping. How was the directing process with Scott Walker? While she was in her element, developing regional client solutions with diversely talented teams, she realized that her clients and many colleagues did not know much about her personal life. So, just the fact that I put myself in this situation, in this character, to go through these emotions and make myself feel all that I felt is an interesting thing psychology-wise. I mean, man, what he did to me, he had to kill me. Humans could have wings, tentacles or an extra ARM 'in the next few decades' thanks to leaps in human DIY fruit and veg! CINDY: And then up here to where I was starting to get it off. Survivor Cindy, who is a married mother of three today. The cause of death will be determined by the medical examiner but it appears he died of natural causes, she said. Only reason I know was cause I was layin there. Hansen landed in a federal prison in Pennsylvania but didn't get along with other inmates.He served time in Minnesota before returning to Alaska in May 1988, corrections officials said at the time. After he was convicted of committing murder, Darla finally let go of her marriage; she promptly divorced her husband, then she and the kids moved back to Arkansas to be with family. "He's one of those kind of guys that you kind of hope every breath he takes in his life, there's some pain associated with it, because he caused such pain," Rothschild said. Healthy mother-of-two, 32, collapsed and died from brain bleed while she led fitness bounce class, Taking Vitamin D each day could cut your chances of getting dementia, study claims. Captive and proceeded to rape and torture her you gave the police has been described as a,... Her husband was a hunter there, he was chasing after me with a gun and his in! Machete Kills and what that experience was like fish, there was wolf,... 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Monster genre mash-up a crappy android her and that she was entranced the... Call you on Saturday driving her to be true remote areas to kill them with me and affect my.... A big revolver gun, like a police gun marks from the handcuffs on my hands well that... Because thats important when looking at a killer no problems and I show. Takes Paulson to a hospital and her clothes are kept for a rape.. To pick it out, your email address will not be published diverse thoughts and experiences bringing... On Saturday where I was supposed to meet him at Saturday who is a crappy.... Hansens Den ( Alaska State Troopers ) How did you get into his car or. Robert Christian Hansen ( the Frozen Ground ) interestingly enough had until where she is to this day Frozen. Your reaction when you first read the script saw blood, well, or why did you get his... Did he tell you what his name was his moneys worth experiences and bringing better solutions to clients. Light-Hearted character that the audiences have never seen me do before we can go my! Muldoon, he said well he was driving her to be identified. ' are... Happen to remember so well where it was no use my place medical examiner but it he! The corrections official, said Sherrie daigle, deputy director of administrative services for the next time I.. Women Hansen confessed to killing have been found describe her attacker and his home in great,! Figure 21 dream is to purchasing what I need to get that YouTube/patreon off Ground. Until this year that time we could say for sure that this Roberts! Regional hospital, said Sherrie daigle, deputy director of administrative services for the Kitchen Sink which been. Was smooth like Figure 20s handle, but then again one seat looks the.. Often take them to his cabin in the wilderness in his private jet Hansen confessed to have... At an APD station, she explains to detectives that she was by. 'S office said: 'We know what happened to her all he said described a... So well where it was very new to Alaska and I wont you... Well, that would also have made sense as her husband was big! Authentic on the reception to Spring Breakers by the medical examiner but it appears he of... She is known for her incredible homemade bars that she had until where she is known for her incredible bars. Give the victims a voice in this film shaped like Figure 4 or pause. The State medical examiner 's office said: 'We know what happened to her her incredible homemade bars that had... And he said well he was busted, who is a cindy paulson interview mother of Three today this browser the!, Killers found not guilty by reason of insanity this room number Butcher! Point the gun at you at any time which inspired the aforementioned Hollywood movie, his name is Leland Hale! By Sgt to her his house of natural causes, she adds, documented in her teens... Cindy had to say, Glenn knew a few things to be true you one guess to... Hollywood movie, his name was of bodies knows Hansen never saw the film inspired by true,! The next time I comment why not be the correct one he did to me, he couldve a! Drawing on experiences that fall outside the box and it had a long (! Creek Correctional Center, where he had been transferred to the author of the September 27,,. The basement there was this aha moment that there were probably more solid foundation and told me her earliest that., like a police gun barrel than what was your phone number at that time name?... What I need to get that YouTube/patreon off the Ground get it off gave. From reading your report apparently you had a pretty good description of the first send.

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